New SG-1 topic to discuss

[jennickels]

Yes, I'm on a roll with random SG-1 back story questions/topics.

So, over the years I've made a spreadsheet chart of all the characters' ages and whatnot so I can keep track of things. I even add in original characters (if their ages are important) and notes about different aspects of the plot. It's big mess but it works. At one point I was working on a story about Jack when he was teen and that got me thinking about his early military career.

What's the consensus on that? Or is there one?

Based on numerous fan sites one of his ribbons is for service in Vietnam. Being born in 1952 (as the sites say) that would have put him way on the tail end of the war at 18-19 years old so he couldn't have gone to the Academy. In fact, Jack would have had to enlist.

Based on the birthdate of October 20, 1952, Jack would have been eligible for the draft in 1971 and his draft number would have been 331 which was never called. America began pulling out of Vietnam in March of 1973. Yes, I did the research on this.
(also in this research I found out my dad, who enlisted in the Marines when he was 18 never would have been drafted either, his number was never called)

In my head, this is canon. So what happened to him after that? Since you need a degree to become an officer I always assumed he went to college while still on active duty (I'm not sure if that was a thing in the 70s but it is now). Then moved through the ranks, eventually getting a graduate degree, because we all know Jack is a lot smarter than he lets on.

Does all that make sense?

Opposing theories?

Comments

[nynaeve-sedai.livejournal.com]

Pol, who was military, had an explanation and I wish I could remember it. If you post in GW, someone might be able to explain. I think what I remember hearing was that he was unlikely in Vietnam? It's likely what he did was enlist and then go to OTC later (that's what my dad did, he joined up in 197...4? He did night classes, got his degree, and then went to OTC and became an officer, he also got a masters degree at some point because he needed it... he retired a Lt. Col). I have letters that my mom wrote my grandmother during that time. It was adorable (they got married when she was 18 - so it's mind-boggling at times LOL).

If he was black ops, he was probably stationed in Europe at some point (my dad did black ops as a C-130 pilot) at either Ramstein or Rhein Main. I know my dad at one point was in England (before I was born, this was while he was enlisted). So assuming he graduated, was active duty and went to night class, got his degree, went to OTC school he would have probably spent a good deal of time in the States. My dad made captain in like 1981 (he had an early promotion somewhere, but that's all sketchy for me). We went to West Germany in 1984 and were there until 1989 when we went to Australia. My dad flew with RAAF for the first gulf war.

Just to give you some kind of vague idea of how that could work, dunno if it helps.

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

Thanks.

I forgot about the other theory of him never being in Vietnam which I was going to mention. I was just going off of the ribbons because it was the last thing I had read about.

I always figured, though, that he enlisted then did officer training. I just can't picture Jack at the Academy.

Then of course there's the ultimate questions: what did Jack major in? I've seen all sorts of stuff over the years of reading fanfic.

[nynaeve-sedai.livejournal.com]

My dad majored in biology but he told me it wasn't uncommon for guys to just get a psych degree because it was easier. I saw my dad's schedule once, I don't know that he ever slept - he was super close to a chemistry minor but he needed to graduate and the minor wasn't necessary. I don't think Jack would have gone into the sciences. I don't think he's a dope, but I could see him going more for a poli sci major. I know props put him with an engineering degree? My dad got his masters in public administration because as you move up the ranks, there's more politicking - which my dad hated and that's why he retired when he did. He didn't want to kiss butts to get higher up LOL (and he always said as soon as they tried to put him behind a desk, he was out and colonels don't do a lot of flying. That's one of the many SG inaccuracies - Jack would likely not be going out into the field). For a lot of guys, even my dad, the degree is a means to an end. Doesn't mean they're stupid, it just means that when you have a full time job, a wife, and you're young and you want to get into a cockpit, you'll get whatever fits the bill. (My dad just really likes science).

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

My dad mentioned the thing about Jack being a colonel still in the field. He found that completely unbelievable, but, eh... suspension of disbelief. The SGC did have an overabundance of colonels and lt. colonels, didn't it?

I don't see Jack in the hard sciences either. I always imagine history for some reason, emphasis on military history. Or military strategy. I don't know why.

[syxp.livejournal.com]

Clearly he majored in grumpy hotness. :P

[thothmes.livejournal.com]

He was a double major, I'm betting. Military History (if you tell Daniel, he'll have to kill you) and English Grammar and Syntax Grumping. ;)

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

OMG, where's the like button?

Man, I wish I had access to all my icons because I have a perfect one for this comment.

[thothmes.livejournal.com]

Despite that and several references to his seemingly less than stellar intellect he received an award for Academic Excellence upon his graduation from the Air Force Academy as a Second Lieutenant. (SG1: "Zero Hour")

That said, I've gone over the transcript, and cannot find a verbal reference. It may have been prop canon. The MGM background that would have been part of the writer's bible for the show mentions that he is an Academy grad. The Vietnam ribbons are also just prop canon. I suspect that this is one of those cases where TPTB were lazy and never reconciled the background that they wanted to give him, including Vietnam experience, an Academy degree, black ops background, time in as a test pilot (also mentioned in his MGM bio, and substantiated by his flying the experimental X-302 in Redemption, which would not have been allowed if he were not experienced) with what is actually possible. They also waffled enough with Jack's age ('52 is prop cannon in Entity, and contradicts when he tells Kynthia that he is 40 during the first season) that it has spun off a huge fandom debate on the subject.

Tl;dr - I think you can chose the way you want to go with this. My head canon is he spent more time and attention on sports than academics in high school and had no particular college ambitions, so her couldn't claim a student deferment and was drafted into Vietnam, chose the Air Force in the hope that he could avoid dying in the jungle somewhere, did something Jackishly heroic that got him an extremely non-standard nomination to the Academy (Maybe he saved the life of a Senator's son, and was offered one favor and used it wisely, because he figured he'd like giving orders better than taking them?) and being an adrenaline junkie, became a test pilot, switching to black ops when Sara begged him to do something, anything other that that!.

Poor Sara. I don't imagine she had it easy even before Charlie died.

I believe I have read that he needs a graduate degree in order to make colonel, and a PhD in order to make General, although I'm betting that there are exceptions made for exceptional needs or exceptional backgrounds that might account for Jack making general, and not being recommended for separation because he had spent too long at the grade of colonel. As a rule the military requires that an officer continues to progress up the ranks, and too long in grade can be grounds for separation. They are periodically reviewed, and their superiors need to recommend them for promotion, retention, or separation.

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

Ooh, all good info to consider when deciding back story (which obviously can change from story to story).

I like your head canon. And the reasoning for him becoming an officer (rather give commands than take them) sounds exactly like Jack, lol.

My dad ended up enlisting because he didn't want to chance getting drafted and not get into the Marines which is what he wanted.

The thing about his age... I always thought of the thing with Kynthia as him just trying to make a point and he didn't really mean he was 40. The idea was so foreign to her it wouldn't have mattered if he said 40 or 45, he just picked an easy round number. At least that's how I justify it.

Okay, because I should be researching and writing a sociology paper I'm instead researching military advancement, lol.

According to about.com all generals have to retire by 62. Or after 5 years of advancing to whatever rank. Or after 30-35 years of service (for O-7 or O-8, it doesn't discuss ranks above that). I find this all interesting to fit into future fics.

Assuming the 1952 birth year for Jack and him enlisting at 18 (1970-71) that would mean in 2010 (which would be the 2nd season of SGU) he would have been 57-58 years old and have served for approximately 40 years (yikes!).

At this point he's a Lt. General. So assuming he has to retire after 5 years of making rank or by the standard 62... he's pretty much done with his career. An interesting little tidbit. According to the site there are only 38 officers at O-9 in the Air Force. Jack would have been part of a very elite group.

Yes, I've thought about this stuff way too much.
As for Sam... she makes full colonel when she takes over Atlantis, right? Which is around 2007.

Which means by 2010 she could be up for promotion by the minimum in-grade requirements (3 years... this is all from the about.com page). In one of my future fics Jack makes it very clear that Sam is on the short list to take over the SGC when Landry retires (because you can only move up to general if someone retires... or dies).

Okay, I better go back to my actual homework, lol.

Oh, yeah, one site I looked at (don't remember which one at the moment) said that a Master's degree isn't a requirement to move up to any rank but it's almost impossible to make Major without one because it's so competitive.

[thothmes.livejournal.com]

Btw, unintentional plagiarism alert! I forgot to italicize the first paragraph of my comment here which is a quote from StargateWiki, in the Characters/Main/Jack O'Neill.

Bad Thothmes! 40 lashes with a wet library catalogue card!