~ugh~

[jennickels]

I was working on editing my sg1friendathon story last night.  I'm pretty sure my turn is coming up pretty soon and I have almost 10k words to edit.  Anyway, I'm reading through my own copy and fixing things I'm not liking and then checking the comments my beta sent me and I realize I have serious issues with commas.  Specifically in relation to independent clauses which I had to actually look up.  My head hurts now.  I always thought I was pretty good at grammar... now I feel like an idiot.

So, now I have to go through the whole damn story with a fine tooth comb putting a bajillion commas in and completely change the way I write so I remember to put in commas in the first place.  I think the problem stems from my dropping the comma before and in a series (yeah, I know huge debate topic).  Some time in college it became the cool thing to not have a comma and I slowly switched over (I remember this being a big deal for me because I kept saying, "but there's supposed to be a comma there!").  Somehow that transferred into me dropping the comma before any and.  Ugh.

I apologize for my dozens of grammatically incorrect stories.  *shakes head in shame*

On top of that, I got to page 7 (of 19) and realized something was wrong with the plot.  At first I just thought I was confused in my own description of events.  See the group goes to implement this plan Jack devises to distract some Jaffa.  But I couldn't picture the geography as described.  I drew a little map and suddenly realized I screwed something up.

In my 1st draft I had a totally different scenario.  I changed it in the 2nd draft, making Jack's plan a completely different series of events.  But when I wrote the scene I reused some of the stuff from the first draft completely forgetting I changed the sequence.  D'oh.  So I had to spend ten minutes rewriting Jack's plan to match the actual events later in the story (easier than rewriting the entire section of the story).

I'm still only on page 7.  I still have a bunch of stories to finish.  Two are do tomorrow and a whole bunch of them due Saturday.  Today Owen and Brenna have eye appointments.  Brenna has worn glasses since she was 18 months and is long overdue for a checkup.  Owen's been complaining he can't see far away and he's the same age I was when I got my glasses.  That's going to take most of the afternoon.  And since I took a day off of cleaning yesterday the house is a wreck and I have to get it done today for my own sanity.  Sigh.  Can't wait to get this weekend over with.  I don't have any challenges due next week (at least not any I haven't already finished...yet).

Comments

[campylobacter.livejournal.com]

A Special Comma
http://fandom-grammar.livejournal.com/11158.html

My #1 rule for commas: Use as few as possible unless it interferes with clarity.

"Let's eat Bra'tac!" is entirely different from "Let's eat, Bra'tac!"

Whereas "Would you like cake, pie, macaroons, or blue jello?" and "Would you like cake, pie, macaroons or blue jello?" is largely a stylistic choice of whether to indicate a vocal pause.

Hope the kiddos like their new eyeglasses. :D

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

fandom_grammar was the first place I went. But it still didn't clear things up for me and since I needed to know lat night I couldn't ask for them to do another post clarifying comma usage. Found a grammar sight that spelled it all out for me.

I get the commas in those examples. I'm very careful to use commas where I would normally pause in speech (around clauses and stuff). I've heard some really vicious debates over special commas in series. I remember having issues with it myself after years and years of having it drilled into me, "there's always a comma before and in a series". But then in college I learned that was going out of style and convinced myself to drop it. I've stuck with that because I think it looks cleaner (usually).

My issue stems from independent clauses linked with and (and but). I wasn't putting a comma between them. I guess it stems from my style of writing. I'm sure some of the major grammar geeks around noticed I like to use run-on sentences and sentence fragments a lot. It's not that I don't understand the grammar around them, I just like the style. The way the story reads with the full stops between clauses. Usually that's because I'm inside a person's head and humans don't really speak (and I would assume think) in correct grammar.

Some examples from my story as I have them written:
Jack puts a finger to his lips and they all duck down behind the overturned furniture of the room.

Several minutes pass in peace and Daniel finally lets himself relax a little.

He winks at Sam and she blushes furiously.

Supposedly I'm supposed to be putting a comma before the ands.

The whole thing is giving me a migraine but I think I'm starting to get the hang of it (at least in my editing, apparently I still can't use them while I'm writing, lol).

[campylobacter.livejournal.com]

Don't sweat the independent clause punctuation too much, because their presence or absence really doesn't affect the meaning in those specific sentences.

You'd need a comma between these independent clauses: "Jack climbed on top of Sam and Daniel kept watch."

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

See, that's more how I see it. I always thought my sentences made sense. I don't know any more. I'm starting to second guess myself. It's been so long since I've taken a grammar class and the rules are always changing.

[campylobacter.livejournal.com]

It depends on whom you ask about "changing" grammar rules, but in general, rules tend to relax or to become more international-ized because of the World Wide Web. I don't recommend Strunk & White, but I like to follow Fowler's MODERN ENGLISH USAGE while keeping an eye on New MLA guidelines.

I still stand by my main tenet: rules that don't affect the MEANING or CLARITY of what's being written are optional. Decorative commas are optional. Commas that clear away ambiguity are essential. Therefore, if Jack's climbing on top of both Sam & Daniel, then YAY ORGY. But if he's climbing on top of Sam as Daniel obliviously takes sentry duty, YAY COMMA.

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

hmmm, I like that take on things. Some of the grammar nazis I've met would disagree.

As for your example, I wouldn't have had the problem because I would have said, "Jack climbed on top of Sam while Daniel kept watch." (or used as)

Then again I don't see myself ever writing any version of that sentence, lol.

[campylobacter.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that was the only sentence that I could concoct quickly to illustrate an essential comma.

ICON LUV <3

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that was the only sentence that I could concoct quickly to illustrate an essential comma.

I'm so sure.

[campylobacter.livejournal.com]

Hey, you try to coming up with missing-comma sentence examples at the spur-of-the-moment!

• Sam worried about Jack and Daniel being late to the debriefing indicated another problem.
• Maybourne wanted to taste the local moonshine and Teal'c disapproved with a raised eyebrow.

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

*snicker*

[nymaeria.livejournal.com]

although that sentence has the makings of a fun prompt... :)

[nymaeria.livejournal.com]

I think the thing with commas is to consider your audience. I mentioned them in my edits because that's how I learned it, and I'm also used to writing for scientific journals where the editors might snark at me (or just go in and add them anyway). But, after listening to Bill Bryson's Journeys in English several years ago I came away convinced that if one thing is true about language, it's that it's constantly evolving and changing. Bryson includes some funny quotes from people centuries ago about how the English language was just being "ruined" by things like the subjunctive tense - whereas now I can't imagine writing (or thinking or speaking) without "would, should, could." Ever since then, I can't help but think extreme grammar naziism is probably a waste of energy because it involves fixating not just on a particular set of rules, but on a particular time period as well.

It's probably more important to go with the current societal consensus, and that may depend on your audience. So, if you're writing for snarky journal editors, (or maybe applying for a job where older, possibly more traditional people will be reading your resume) a stricter convention might make sense. For a more relaxed audience of fiction writers, where creativity is more key, maybe clarity is really the most important thing.

But although I try to avoid extreme stances on grammar, I have to admit I'm still enough of a grammar nerd to find things like this incredibly hilarious :D

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I'll have to take all that into consideration.

That link was hilarious. I was in tears laughing about the alot. My 5yo daughter is staring at me like I'm insane wanting to know what is so funny. I can't stop giggling.

[cschick.livejournal.com]

What I kind of see in those sentences is an over-use of 'and'.

Jack puts a finger to his lips, then they all duck behind the overturned furniture of the room.

Several minutes pass in peace before Daniel finally lets himself relax a little. (Or then instead of before, depending the surrounding context).

He winks at Sam, and she blushes furiously. (I could take or leave the comma in that sentence.)

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, you've hit on my tendency to overuse and. All my stories are like that. Not sure if I can get out of the habit now that I've been doing it for so long. My stories are full of them.

[bluewillowtree.livejournal.com]

Commas are just tricky. I'm the opposite in that I tend to overuse them, though I'm trying to get better about it. I don't like the serial comma either, but I'm forced to use it for work writing (they have this whole list of writing guidelines that we have to follow), and sometimes I forget that I don't need to use it in real life.

I'm generally pretty good at grammar, but I mostly learned it through osmosis because my dad's an English teacher. I've very rarely had it actually taught to me, so while I mostly know what's right and wrong, I don't know the rules or proper terms to explain why.

Anyway, best of luck with your story, which I'm looking forward to reading! Also looking forward to checking out Seven Sins, though I'm guessing from the title that it might not be work-safe? I'll save it for when I'm home.

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

I always thought I had a pretty good grasp of them. Sigh. You learn something new every day. Which, I guess, is a good thing. I like learning stuff (just hate that I feel stupid right now).

Seven Sins isn't that bad. It's mostly silliness until the end and even that isn't that bad.