i swear, there's always one

[jennickels]

This is a review I just got on ff.net for Seven Sins:

This was pretty good except for the ending. You ruined the whole thing by
having him go after Carter. He should have gone after the first pretty nurse
he saw but no, you had to play to the J/S fans. I'm disappointed in you.
 

"Play to the J/S fans"?  Um, I am a Sam/Jack shipper.  Although I suppose it went from a completely teamy fic to slight S/J at the end but I didn't think I played it up that much.  I really wasn't even thinking Sam/Jack really when I wrote it but I guess the line the nurse says sold it as that.  Sigh.  There's always one to complain about something.  And they always reply anon or without a ff.net account so I can't reply back.

Being a shipper myself I don't really think of these things.  Do you take out any shippiness in an otherwise teamy fic to please the non-shippers or add ship in to please the shippers?  I write what I would want to read.  I like to read ship.  I love team adventure fics, too, but love when they have the shippiness in the background.  So, of course, that's what I write.  To be accused of putting ship in to please shippers cracks me up.  I put it in to please myself.

One freaking scene and it ruined the story for this guy (the name on the review was "John").  Oh well.  Back to what I was doing... which I can't remember right now.  I think I was going to go get myself some dinner, lol.

Comments

[oceania.livejournal.com]

John is a dick. But some people hate s/j. So here's the thing...don't fucking read it John. Why comment at all John? Why you be so much dickishness John?

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

LOL

In John's defense there was no Sam/Jack warning because I didn't think it was shippy at all. There's lots of reasons Jack chose Sam besides to please the shippers.

But to get bent out of shape over one scene in a 7600 word story... overboard. But, free speech and all that. I've had much ruder comments left on my fics.

[cleothemuse.livejournal.com]

I'm one of those that probably would have expressed my annoyance with surprise!S/J--or any other stealth 'ship, for that matter--at the end of a story... I certainly wouldn't have bitched about him not chasing after an OFC, though... yikes.

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

See my note to campy below.

I didn't intentionally make the ending Sam/Jack. Wasn't even thinking about it actually, especially not to surprise the non-shippers, lol.

Maybe I need a general warning that all my stories can potentially contain shippy references even the gen ones because I seem to subconsciously add it.

Still I think the scene stands. Jack chased Sam because she's the woman he spends most of his time with, if he's lusting after anyone it would be her. Or maybe it's just my interpretation of lust being not just some animalistic urge to jump anybody of the opposite sex. I think of lust as more having to do with familiarity. He wouldn't have to be closer or "know" the woman, per say, but he'd have to know of her, see her around, something like that to be lusting after her.

I suppose there could be some random hot nurse in the infirmary he's lusting after but Sam is the main character so... she wins.

Sigh... damn interpretations. It's giving me a headache, lol. Not that I don't mind discussing and debating this stuff, just trying to do it while editing a huge story, with a baby in my arms (who keeps yanking on my bracelet and whacking me in the face) with cramps and my husband screaming at his Madden game in the background... not conducive to intelligent thought.

[campylobacter.livejournal.com]

Agreed. A simple "Please mention in the author's notes or header a passing reference to Sam/Jack" would've sufficed.

[spacegypsy1.livejournal.com]

That's so funny, now I'm curious about how to ruin your own story by writing it in your own style... Love this post, really! "Dear John, we writers write what we want to read... move along these are not the stories you are looking for." b

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

*gigglesnort*

I'm always amazed at the readers that get all bent out of shape because we don't write what THEY want to read. Like it's even possible to please every reader out there.

[campylobacter.livejournal.com]

OMGROTFLMAO

"John" wanted Jack to go after a Mary Sue instead of Sam, Daniel, Teal'c or Janet? That's a switch!

> Do you take out any shippiness in an otherwise teamy fic to please the non-shippers or add ship in to please the shippers?

I write whatever I wanna write, but I label the heck out of it so that anyone who wanks won't have a valid reason to whinge.

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

I guess my problem was I didn't see the scene as shippy. At least not when I wrote it. But I added in one little line from a nurse about Jack kind of attacking her then leaving because he was looking for someone else. The line had been slightly different in my 1st draft but the way I worded it in the end sounded better to me.

But I guess that shifts the whole attack Sam in the shower scene look shippy. I guess, also, people automatically think because he's acting out "lust" it must be romantic and therefore shippy. As to why he didn't just jump the first woman he saw... I thought of it more as he spends most of his time with Sam so if he's going to be lusting after anyone it would be her whether he wanted to be romantically involved with her or not.

Kind of like Sam picking Jack in the Broca Divide. There were lots of men in authority around her but she chose Jack, she saw him as the strongest, best mate at the time... probably because she spends most of her time with him. If she had barely known him she surely would have picked someone else.

Does that make sense?

I just didn't see the scene as outright shippy. Other people like to read into it though. Sigh.

[campylobacter.livejournal.com]

Dang, that locker room scene in Broca Divide? I wanted to take Jack's place, because Alpha!Sam is NOMNOMNOM.

And as a primarily Jack/Daniel 'shipper, I can totally understand Sam or Daniel or Teal'c wanting to jump on top of Jack. I'd jump on top of him, too.

[thothmes.livejournal.com]

Twice in a weel I have a use for an icon I made and haven't mounted, because I really didn't think I would use it often. If I mount it, of course, I will never need to use it ever again. It uses the picture in this icon, with an alternate legend: "Carter goosing him was a surprise. Daniel doing it was a bigger one."

I have loved happy endings (preferably happy endings with romance) since I was little. I was a tomboy. I was not at all girly, and I'm still not girly, except in this one thing: I've always been attracted to the opposite sex, and I've always been a complete sucker for a romance. Being the protagonist in my own happy ending, and being the person I am, this makes me a happy little shipper, and specifically a Sam/Jack shipper.

Jack/Daniel doesn't do it for me, although I've read some phenomenally wonderful stories by phenomenally wonderful writers that are Jack/Daniel. It would never, ever occur to me to criticise the author of a Jack/Daniel story for chosing that pairing, even if I wandered into it all unwarned. It's their squee. It would be rude to say that it is wrong/bad/ooc/icky. Nor do I think that. It's a perfectly valid pairing that doesn't do it for me.

There was a story out that paired Jack with Jennifer Haley that I found to be borderline cradle robbery (48 in bed with 22!) and squicky, but I didn't say so. [The author started writing the series as "punishment" for Sam who no longer deserved Jack, since she "betrayed" him with Pete. Never mind that Jack doesn't seem to see it that way, but instead gives her room to seek happiness, because he truly loves her.] I just pushed the back button, tip-toed quietly away, and made an "eeewww!!!" face in the privacy of my own space. This story made the author and some readers happy. The protagonists were consenting adults. Who am I to interfere with their squee?

There are certain sites where either some Sam/Jack shippers or some Jack/Daniel shippers delight in slipping in an in-your-face our-pair-are-f*ing-like-bunnies portion to their fic, in fine ambush style, sometimes with a scornful reference to the utter distaste Jack has for the idea of congress with that other partner. This is silly and makes me want to knock heads and ask in fine L.A. Riot/Rodney King style "Why can't we all just get along?"

Sam seems to be a bit of a lightening rod for some people, and most of those people who can't tolerate Sam seem (in my opinion) to be threatened by strong or succesful women, in a way that Jack just ain't. Those people will allow Jack to end up with anybody from Ba'al to Siler to Hathor to Anise to Loki to Howard the Wonder Horse, provided he stays away from Sam. And they see approach to Sam in the most harmless and unromantic of gestures. They don't seem to have trouble with Vala, I suspect because they see Vala as enough of a screw-up to be far less threatening. I imagine they'd hate Haley even more if she became a main character.

I'm really glad you are smart and secure enough to go on with the avowed intention to continue to write what you would want to read, because we have similar tastes in reading, and I, for one, will be delightedly looking forward to reading more!

[cleothemuse.livejournal.com]

Oh, no, believe you me... Vala gets turned into The OOC Bitch often enough in Jack/Daniel fics... it's just that by the time she came around, many of the most militant slashers had moved on to personal canon that never had Jack leaving the SGC, so they largely ignored her.

*headdesk*

[thothmes.livejournal.com]

Oh, I have no doubt of that. I've seen it with my own eyes. I guess what I was trying to express (not entirely clearly) is that some people have objection to Sam on general principles, even before the matter of pairings comes up, because they see her as the Mary-Sue-est Mary Sue evah!

But yeah, some of the most ardent OTP'ers of all varieties try to make the rival into some sort of monster, some sort of sexless or oversexed being, or some sort of weak, wan ineffectual creature. It never works, because in order to do that, the rival has to be waaaaay OOC, and the whole fic goes off the rails as a result. Bad writing is Bad.

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

Jack and Haley... uh, no. I don't see Jack taking up with someone that young, especially someone he knows somewhat well and will see around. He'd see her more as a daughter or niece or something. But, like you, I wouldn't leave some comment about the pairing. Whatever floats the author's boat.

I've noticed the maelstrom that Sam creates with fans. And the reasons are all over the freaking place. Obviously some fans can't handle a strong, independent female lead. Other's see her as devoid of humanity, apparently.

I got slammed on one story because I made her sort of freak out on a mission and almost got them all killed. Nevermind the story was AU where Sam was just thrown into a leadership position with Jack as her 2IC. I was accused of bashing Sam because of that (I never bash characters).

I've also seen comments on other stories that show Sam having any normal human emotions. They always accuse the author of trying to make Sam dependent on a man (Jack or Daniel or whoever). Can't a woman be both strong/independent and have feelings. Sam has cried on the show. And she's come close to it many more times. She can usually hide it but she still has those feelings, insecurity (definitely at the beginning), needs. Geesh.

People take their ships way too seriously. I can't imagine making 1/2 of a pairing into an evil bitch/bastard just to break them up. That's why I have difficulties writing Sam/Pete break up stories. Pete was such a nice guy (despite his slightly stalkerish tendencies). I have to find legitimate reasons to break them up. Obviously the biggest one is that Sam doesn't actually love him but I'm not going to make Pete out to be the bad guy in the pairing. Sam was the one that jerked him around for far too long.

It still amazes me the way the ships polarize a fandom. Like you said, "why can't we all just get along?"

[campylobacter.livejournal.com]

A lot of anti-Samantha Carter wank stems from laziness; it's easier to oversimplify Sam as a tomboyish military scientist than to see all sides of a complex, fully-rounded, subtle character who's developed over 11 seasons (including SGA). Reducing her to "strong, independent Mary Sue without vulnerabilities" is just as faily as Sam/Jack fanfic that paints her as a giggly/emo virgin.

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

OMG, virgin!Sam is ridiculous. Do we even need to touch on virgin!Jack fic which is the crackiest kind of fic (I've never read it but I've heard about).

[campylobacter.livejournal.com]

WAT

How in the fresh hell could virgin!Jack have fathered Charlie?

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

I know, right.

I've never actually seen virgin!Jack fic but I've heard of it's existence. I'm pretty sure the only way this thing could have been written is if the author were an 11yo girl that had never watched more than a few episodes. Or they were just an idiot. Or perhaps one of those kids that never got sex-ed in school.

As for virgin!Sam... Just because she's a geek doesn't mean she'd be a virgin in her late 20s/early 30s. For crying out loud. Even I was getting some in college and I was the biggest dork on the planet.

[campylobacter.livejournal.com]

I'm sure someone's written virgin fic for mini!Jack, but virgin!Sam makes no sense, given that locker room scene in Broca Divide where she's clearly a Top, and First Commandment where she's Jonas Hanson's ex-fiancée.

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

mini!Jack sex is squicky. He's still a 50-something year old guy in a 15yo body. Unless it's mini!Sam and even that's kind of icky because she's still got a 15yo body.

Love mini!Jack when done right (and that kid was hilarious, I almost forgot he wasn't RDA for a minute while watching that episode). That whole situation would really screw with Jack's head.

And we really are all over the place with topics on this post.

[campylobacter.livejournal.com]

BWA!

Whenever a fanfic author posts about negative feedback, it always sparks interesting tangents. :D

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

They seem to become all out rants about what writers like/dislike about fanfiction (whatever their fandom may be).

[freaking stupid dog next door started barking and woke Jack up]

[obsessed-psyco.livejournal.com]

What the hell. They couldn't just have given an opinion on that saying they didn't personally like s/j, they had to slate the whole fic? I hate people who are just plain mean about fic like that!

I haven't read it yet. Haven't had the chance but I plan to.

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

I guess he was just upset because he thought I purposefully blindsided him with blatant ship in a team fic. Oh well. Can't please them all.

[obsessed-psyco.livejournal.com]

I guess but the series itself was a team thing and it had blatant ship in it!

Oh well. I'm going to read it tonight hopefully so i'll let you know what I think!

=D

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

But some people refuse to acknowledge the Sam/Jack stuff so when they see it in a story they don't see it as canon.

Whatever.

[cschick.livejournal.com]

Nowadays, reviews like that just make me chuckle, really. But I've always tended toward fewer rather than more warnings/headers/whatever-the-heck-you-want-to-call-them.

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

I was more WTF than upset. Mostly just giggling at the accusation. I really don't care.

People are really obsessed with warnings to the point that they sometimes give the entire story away. I hate them. I probably get a lot of people reading my stories and being frustrated I didn't warn for something because I don't think about it. I also don't put spoiler warnings since the show I write for ended years ago. If you're new to the fandom and haven't seen all the episodes then you should read the fanfic at your own risk of being spoiled.

I know I refused to read any until after I had seen all the episodes (coming into the fandom years after the show ended).

All the other reviews for that story on ff.net were positive with a request for an epilogue to see how Jack handled everything that happened.

[cschick.livejournal.com]

Although I know that this issue would have almost certainly have risen independently, I kind of curse the day when I and Natasha came up with the first formalized list of keywords/warnings/descriptors for Gossamer. While the 'ship ones were already being pretty widely used, they were about the only ones being regularly used back then.

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

Ahh, so I have Deirdre to blame. That explains it all.

Teehee.

Always the trouble maker, Dee.

[cschick.livejournal.com]

(And this user pic is in honor of the reader who once went off at us archivists because we did not have an options for a "dead alien fetus" warning, and sent us a few anti-abortion rants.)

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

Did dead alien fetuses come up a lot in fics?

It's been awhile since I've seen an episode of X-files and I've never ready any fic for it.

[cschick.livejournal.com]

There was a part of the mytharc that involved dead alien fetuses or dead alien/human hybrid fetuses. I don't remember which, not even sure that was ever clarified. Most of the "big" mytharc eps were during November or May sweeps and I think that there were dead alien fetuses in one of the season-ender storylines at some point. Thus, stories which may have involved dead alien fetuses or mention of the lab they were in.

Which leads to the question: if you object to dead alien fetuses, WHY IN THE WORLD are you watching the X-Files?

[jennickels.livejournal.com]

Which leads to the question: if you object to dead alien fetuses, WHY IN THE WORLD are you watching the X-Files?

No kidding.